Hupe's studded tires

[curtis]

Keep in mind that hupe all ready has a year and a ton of money into his current tire. Which is must appreciated.
Also we need to think about track wear and if the car would stand up to this kind of traction.

From what I herd the menard tire is going to become obsolete...maybe not this year maybe not next but.....its more than likely coming.

[tbone]

voted

[jeffchuch]

Sorry I couldn't make the meeting wed. family birthday party that night. I Think that the tires should be used obviously cause i used them last year and they were great. we just have to figure out the stud count. We didn't really know till the end of last year what ice consumption was like with the hupe tires. Don's car was totally different than my car. The stud count don had was fine, i had to bring up my stud count and the last day I did but blew a tire so never really found out what it was like. But my 2 cents is that stud count has to be linked to weight of car and possibly even 2wd or awd. but we don't know how they will react to an awd car yet.

[Don Hupe]

of course how did you think I would vote

[austinpowered]

If no one races ice wear will not be an issue, we have to try something this has been worked on for years now let them compete for points and adjust if a problem arises

[curtis]

I believe if we just let these tires fly as is there would be less cars out there. With the mennards we had a tough time with keeping the cars from breaking, heck i remember seeing 4 studded cars out there racing the feature. So we have to figure something out here. Put them in studded X ?? that could work, Hupe had close to the same lap times as Eddy.
Here is a little quote from Eddy about these tires"you DON"T want to see me go any faster" its too fast.I'm sure we will get to the bottom of this and some body will be pissed.

[Doug]

We need some hard numbers to go by before making any decisions.

Can we compile some comparative numbers between Hupes car and others pre Hupe tires and after to see how much, if any, time is being gained?

We could then make a more informed decision about what the next step is.

Currently there is just lip service happening here with many talking and no hard evidence to rely on. There is nothing wrong with being passionate about your feelings but we need some numbers to work with.

In addition we need to determine a way of estimating ice usage with the Menards vs Hupes. If we have the proposed test and tune perhaps hupe could run say 10 laps on Menards, take photos and observational notes, and then 10 laps on the Hupes and do the same. This would again give us something to go on besides word of mouth and opinion.

I would like to state for the record that I beilieve Hupe has the right idea in that the Menards stand a good chance of ending production and the new tires seem to last longer and are much cheaper to buy/build. Something we can all relate too. I for one have stayed away for Studded due to tire issues. The current Menards just do not last.

We are on the right track here and there should not be any talk of ending this. Instead we need something comparative to truely begin to make firm decisions on how to proceed. If the current tires are indeed too fast (once again show me the numbers). then yes we need to scale that back. Teh is no reason we cannot run these with the Menards and find equality. But without hard numbers we are just throwing ka ka at the wall to see what sticks.

I know I am asking for someone to do the research but it is the only way to move forward.

Thank you Hupe for all your efforts.

[curtis]

Hey doug the lap times are 7 sec faster a lap. all this isn't "lip service" just because your not at these meetings or in the know doesn't mean the rest of us aren't. We are trying to make this happen believe me, I am the cheapest guy out there and would love to see hupes tires toned back a bit so we can approve them. PLEASE!!!

P.S. My laps would be a good place to start.....if you would like to know

[curtis]

www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1784677

[Don Hupe]

if anyone would like to try the tires I'll give you a list of what to buy so you can build them yourself

[Doug]

Curtis

For the record I missed 1 ice meeting in the past year. I am trying to make the point that the MEMBERSHIP needs numbers to look at and compare not me personally. It is lip service when there is nothing presented to the members.

I was not looking to start some kind of pissing match but to present a constructive idea that may help further discussions and allow the members to make an informed decision.

My idea was not personal so don't take it as such or make it so. If you would like to take shots like that please do it in person.

[Don Hupe]

if your going to use mylaps as a guide use the feb 20th enduro times, unfortunately Eddie wasn't running but the times are there

[Doug]

I think we need a compilation of times from you with old tires vs other cars and new tires vs other cars. That will better show the improvement, if any, with the tire change.

IMHO

[curtis]

Doug i'm am not starting any pissing match. These tires are openly disscused with whom ever wants to know, we're not holding anything from the members. Every meeting there is a least a 1 hour discussion about them. And yes all the facts,times, track wear and tire construction are argued about over and over. And also the tires HAVE been compared...at the meetings.

So to all the members please come to the meetings

If you need a tire recap I would believe Hupe could say it the best.

Doug I don't need to take shots at you, I'll be nice

[Doug]

Curtis and others,

Perhaps I am not being clear. I have seen/heard the discussions but in general it is an open discussion and numbers are tossed around with differing opinions. What I am suggesting is a compilation of those numbers onto paper from which a true comparison can be made.

For example:

times that include Hupe with Menards on (prior to his testing with his tire)

Another set of time that include Hupe with Hupe tires on (during his testing) These times should include what patern he was running at the time.

This would allow a comparison of times pre and present Hupe tires. Everyone could then look at these times and physically see the difference in times.

I have also heard talk of ice usage but in general it was one persons opinion of how things looked. If we had photos say from test and tune with and without Hupe tires and some observational notes (measurements of depth of damage to ice with Menards and Hupes.

Certainly most would agree we are on the right track and most (maybe not Hupe) would agree that he seems faster on his tires.

What we (all members) need is imperical evidence from which to make a decision. I am not saying that I don't believe what people are saying but it is mostly opinion and heresay.

Hupe has proved that his tires last and are cheap through evidence (running his tires and bringing in used and new tires for all to see/touch/examine etc.)

We now need evidence about times. Looking on My Laps is great but most do not know when Hupe ran what tires. If someone that knows (you Hupe?) cna just print off some results and perhaps add a note as to tire type and pattern we could then easily say "OK there's the time increase of X".

We could then ask Hupe to try a lesser pattern and make comparisions again at thenext meeting or even at the track.

This use of emperical evidence would help us to speed up the testing and get the Hupe tires comparitive to the Menards.

Can someone step up and print off some sets of race data to give to Hupe to note the tires and pattern on? This could then be available for the next meeting and an informed decision could be made.

Thoughts?